Japanese knives confusion

zuludog

Veteran
Joined
2 Mar 2017
Local time
12:31 PM
Messages
174
Location
Lancashire
I have various knives but recently I've been looking at Japanese knives
I have a gyuto, which is very similar to a western chef's knife, and a petty/utility, but now I fancy a Japanese knife with that distinctive clipped tip
There are two types which are so similar that I can't tell much difference between them

So, please, can you tell me what is the difference between a BUNKA and a KIRITSUKE Japanese cook's knife?
 
"General-purpose Japanese knives like the bunka and santoku have double bevel edges which make using and maintaining them much easier. The kiritsuke is a more advanced knife with a single bevel. Western chef knives always have double bevel edges"
Just googled difference between BUNKA and KIRITSUKE
 
I like the Bunka knife, one of my Zwilling knives has that shape, great feel in the hands. Yet, I still find myself gravitating to Santoku shaped knives for most of my general purpose work.
 
In my ten years working in the kitchen there was never a knife with one edge, beside of bread knifes. At least I think I haven't seen one
 
Thanks for your comments
I've done some more homework, including looking at the websites of several suppliers, and I think I have an answer, at least in simple terms
They are very similar in shape but -

A kiritsuke is intended for slicing vegetables, meat & fish and typically has a longer blade, say 210mm or more
A bunka is intended for both slicing and chopping vegetables and is usually shorter, say 160 to 210mm
Both of them can have single or double bevels, it depends on the choice of the customer and the manufacturer
They mostly have the traditional plain Japanese handle, but there are also the shaped western style handles available
Most of the blades are stainless steel, but there are a few traditional makes with carbon steel

So what I want is a shortish bunka, about 160 to 180mm in stainless steel with a western handle ----- now to Surf t'Net
 
"General-purpose Japanese knives like the bunka and santoku have double bevel edges which make using and maintaining them much easier. The kiritsuke is a more advanced knife with a single bevel. Western chef knives always have double bevel edges"
Just googled difference between BUNKA and KIRITSUKE
These are patterns with similar blades but in different sizes. They can be single or double beveled. With a traditional handle they will have a single bevel. With a western handle they will have a double bevel. Different approaches to different target customers. Double bevel blades can be sharpened like any kitchen knife you have. Single bevel blades are sharpened on a flat waterstone by hand. Traditional blades have single bevels because it makes accurate sharpening easier on a bench stone. Western style edges appeal to us Westerners and many Japanese cooks as well.
 
What is the better goal when sharpening? I've heard and experienced when you've sharpened your knife on a well used whetstone with all kind of bumps in it, you're edge will look like this vwwvvwwvv under a microscope. With all these different sized and directioned spikes in it, similar like a T-rex jaw, it still gets the job done.

When a new knife or a knife with a "repaired" edge gets sharpened by a professional it should have an edge like this right ____________? Straight, without any spikes. Is it worth the effort to learn how to sharpen your knife like a professional knife maker?
 
What is the better goal when sharpening? I've heard and experienced when you've sharpened your knife on a well used whetstone with all kind of bumps in it, you're edge will look like this vwwvvwwvv under a microscope. With all these different sized and directioned spikes in it, similar like a T-rex jaw, it still gets the job done.

When a new knife or a knife with a "repaired" edge gets sharpened by a professional it should have an edge like this right ____________? Straight, without any spikes. Is it worth the effort to learn how to sharpen your knife like a professional knife maker?
You have opened a big subject. I'll try to contain myself to your questions. Firstly, knifemakers grind their edges with belt grinders, something few of us have at our disposal. They are the same machines they use for grinding the entire blade blank to its final shape. Some use whetstones to finish the edge but most are content with what the grinder produces.

When a stone becomes dished from wear, the edges it produces will also be dished. That may not be a problem but it is better to have a flat stone. Cooks who use waterstones grind the stones flat from time to time. There are flattening stones available for the purpose. Concrete blocks work pretty well also.s The striations to which you refer result from the abrasive grit, not the condition of the stone.

I've sharpened knives to a thin polished edge that, unfortunately stick to the cutting board which is inconvenient so you can oversharpen a knife as well. Unless you are a sushi chef, a medium or fine grit edge is all you need. A 1000 grit medium abrasive makes an edge as slick as it needs to be for most culinary purposes. Yes, under a microscope the striations caused by the abrasive are readily visible. Don't worry about microscopes, they aren't necessary or even used for knife sharpening.

The idea is to get the edge at as fine an angle as you can without having the edge collapse under pressure. For most kitchen knives 20 degrees per side is fine. 30 degrees for cleavers. Hard Japanese blades do just fine with 15 degree angles. The edge angle should be consistent from tip to tang and laterally straight. When the edge becomes laterally wavy from contact with the cutting board, you can use a steel to straighten it with a couple of light swipes.

So how do I do it? I use a guided manual sharpening system called the Edgepro. It holds the abrasive stones at a fixed angle so you can achieve that good performing angle consistency and the angle is adjustable. While I can get a blade perfectly sharp with a bench stone, the guided system makes it far faster and easier because I don't have to watch out for the angle or even think about it as I grind the edge.

I will leave you with a tip. As you grind the edge, it will eventually turn over to the side away from the abrasive. We call it a burr. You can feel the burr by resting the edge at an angle on your thumbnail. When you have a consistent burr along the edge, grind the other side of the blade. You will notice that, as you progress through finer grits, the burr will become smaller and sharper. When you have achieved the sharpness you desire you can remove the burr with a leather strop by pulling the blade against the strop rather than pushing it as you would using a bench stone for sharpening. Or you can ignore it. The burr is the guidepost for grinding the edge Learn how it feels and you will be on the way to being a great knife sharpener.

Traditional Japanese knives with thick blades and single bevels are another matter. We can get into that if you wish.
 
Thanks for the advice and the informative post.

I switched from grinding a burr into my knife once every two weeks to everyday a light grind, just to give it the slight sharpness to cut tomatoe and Paprika skin without any problems.
My knife cuts in all the plastic boards and I think that my technique will adjust to it... and that your knife should at least be as sharp as mine.

By the way, it was quite interesting to learn how to create a complete burr, it didn't have the same size over the whole edge tho. I was already thinking of buying some sharpening tools, but I know it's not necessary for the kitchen I'm working in. Nevertheless I might end up buying a bunch of different stones in the next few years.
 
Back
Top Bottom