Culinary Rules You Keep & Ones You Break

[garlichead]

Maybe there's a better word than rule...or preference...and I just don't know what it is. I was just thinking along the lines of the "pasta must be cooked al dente" - if you watch just about any cooking show on TV, if they're making spaghetti or penne or whatever, they will always, always make a point to say, "Cook the pasta until it's al dente, which means 'to the tooth'," which I always find a little patronizing, but that's another topic.

Anyway, is that a rule? A preference? It's always marched out like a rule, that's for sure, but we're just having a fun little conversation on some of those old cooks' tales, rules, whatever you want to call them.

Yeah, a grey area for sure.

Ok, so here's a "rule" that I think most have heard of. "don't drink red wine with fish" Personally that never made any sense to me and I've never followed that rule. I do select more white than red with fish though.

 

[garlichead]

I like cold red wine.

Re: steaks up to room temperature, in Kenji's 'The Food Lab' book he did a side-by-side experiment of steaks left out and steaks kept in the fridge. After 2 hours there was only about 1-2 degrees of internal temperature difference - so little as to make no difference during the cooking.

Yeah, that rule never worked for me.

Should red wine be chilled is different than refrigerated. Red wine should be served at cellar temperatures was the rule which seemed to evolve to room temperature some how, to which is probably not ideal. The only problem with cellar temp and room temp is the temp, funnily enough. For guidance cellar temp is around 55 degrees F. Room temp could range from mid 60's to 80 F. Basically all red wine should be chilled and that is exactly what I do and in the freezer for 15 minutes generally does it for me. Well, that's the rule and of course drink your red wine at any temp you prefer. Also the reason to cellar red wine in the first place is to minimize the alcohol and hot taste you get when the wine is not at the right temp (too high) for drinking.

 

[karadekoolaid]

I think the whole idea of "rules" in cooking is silly. They tend to assume everyone has the same preferences, or places the same value on things like cost, effort, time, nutrition, and taste. So I disregard pretty much all of them. The only real exception is if you're cooking for a crowd, you'll want to make choices that your audience is going to like.
The only really "good" rules, in my opinion, are the ones that are more like the rules of physics.

Well yes, everyone has different preferences, but let´s say there are certain guidelines. If you fry shrimp, squid, or any seafood for 20 minutes, you get bullets - so the idea is, treat seafood gently, and for a short time. If you grill your steak for half an hour and without seasoning it first, it will be like shoe leather. No question.
Quite agree on "cooking for a crowd". You can´t please all the people all the time; you can only do what you think is best.
And as for the laws of physics, I´ve never understood them. All this stuff about inertia, displacement, the formula of the universe. Who really cares if there´s an equal and opposite reaction for every action? In a kitchen, sh** happens, physics or not

 

[karadekoolaid]

Should red wine be chilled is different than refrigerated. Red wine should be served at cellar temperatures was the rule which seemed to evolve to room temperature some how, to which is probably not ideal. The only problem with cellar temp and room temp is the temp, funnily enough. For guidance cellar temp is around 55 degrees F. Room temp could range from mid 60's to 80 F. Basically all red wine should be chilled and that is exactly what I do and in the freezer for 15 minutes generally does it for me. Well, that's the rule and of course drink your red wine at any temp you prefer. Also the reason to cellar red wine in the first place is to minimize the alcohol and hot taste you get when the wine is not at the right temp (too high) for drinking.

I´ve got a feeling that our ideas about wine basically stem from historical data on French wine. Red wine at cellar temperature in Burgundy is not the same as in California, or Australia, for example.
I´ve just pulled out "The Penguin Book of Wines" (pub.1965) from my bookshelf. There are 200 pages dedicated to French wine; 10 to Italy, Portugal and Spain, respectively, and less than three pages regarding Chile, Argentina, USA and South Africa.
So times have changed, producers have changed, conditions have changed - but we´re still stuck with wine protocols about French wines only. As you say, each to their own.

 

[caseydog]

Maybe there's a better word than rule...or preference...and I just don't know what it is. I was just thinking along the lines of the "pasta must be cooked al dente" - if you watch just about any cooking show on TV, if they're making spaghetti or penne or whatever, they will always, always make a point to say, "Cook the pasta until it's al dente, which means 'to the tooth'," which I always find a little patronizing, but that's another topic.

Anyway, is that a rule? A preference? It's always marched out like a rule, that's for sure, but we're just having a fun little conversation on some of those old cooks' tales, rules, whatever you want to call them.

To me, it may not be a rule, but someone well known as a chef has said, "You must do this!" Sometimes my response is, "Well, that makes sense." Other times my response is,

 

[caseydog]

Yeah, a grey area for sure.

Ok, so here's a "rule" that I think most have heard of. "don't drink red wine with fish" Personally that never made any sense to me and I've never followed that rule. I do select more white than red with fish though.

Yeah, wine rules are up for interpretation. I don't like red wines. I like crisp, semi-dry white wines, like Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio , and fruity German wines like Rieslings. So, "you have to drink red wine with beef" is a rule I have broken often.

I also use white wine to make coq au vin... Recipe - Coq au Vin Blanc

CD

 

[Timenspace]

Interesting thread, I will have to think over. Well summarized, interesting read,I appreciate all the posts.

The only thing popping up in my mind right now is savoury ice cream. I still remember reading about a shop in Nyc ,if my memory serves me well, that offered savoury ice cream.

Bacon flavour, pizza flavour etc. Back then,I was surprised, now, 🤷, why not, everyone should eat what and how they like and whatever keeps them healthy.

So, to say, ice cream is a dessert,and thus must be sweet, is a rule I would gladly attempt to break, being my present me.

It is on the borderline of creativity, even avantgarde and invention, as talked earlier.

But perhaps I am missing the point a bit. In cooking per se, I feel like I am still in the learning phase. Need to get to know the rules, really know know, like in years of actually cooking by them, to be able to twist or bend or break them.

Maybe an example, I don't think I would enjoy a bloody steak, I think I would prefer it very well done, almost charred, but I can't say for sure, as I don't remember trying one. Yet again, it is a choice or preference, it might be a rule breaking case, but 🤷...

Or, dishes made of raw meat, are not really my jam. At least as far as I can perceive my own preferences at present . Would I fry the meat? No, I would choose a different dish...if it was at a restaurant, or at home.

 

[garlichead]

I´ve got a feeling that our ideas about wine basically stem from historical data on French wine. Red wine at cellar temperature in Burgundy is not the same as in California, or Australia, for example.
I´ve just pulled out "The Penguin Book of Wines" (pub.1965) from my bookshelf. There are 200 pages dedicated to French wine; 10 to Italy, Portugal and Spain, respectively, and less than three pages regarding Chile, Argentina, USA and South Africa.
So times have changed, producers have changed, conditions have changed - but we´re still stuck with wine protocols about French wines only. As you say, each to their own.

Not all old rules are out of date, it could mean they've passed the test of time. I believe you'll find a consensus among sommeliers that agree with the French Cellar rule of aprox 55 F or that red wine needs to be chilled if it's in a temp that is not appropriate for drinking red wine. Of course people can drink wine anyway they like.

 

[MypinchofItaly]

I think that sometimes the culinary traditions of a certain country are too often mistaken for rules.

 

[caseydog]

Not all old rules are out of date, it could mean they've passed the test of time. I believe you'll find a consensus among sommeliers that agree with the French Cellar rule of aprox 55 F or that red wine needs to be chilled if it's in a temp that is not appropriate for drinking red wine. Of course people can drink wine anyway they like.

I used to have some neighbors that I would sit and drink with often, and they drank chardonnay (a wine I hate) over ice. My thought was, if that's what floats your boat, do it.

CD

 

[Windigo]

Its a culinary crime but I'm OK with pineapple on (certain types of ) pizza. If its with a lot of chillies, epazote and Taleggio cheese its a delightful thing.

Me too. One of my favorites actually is a small amount of pineapple, pepperoni, mozzarella, chillies, peppers & olives.

 

[Windigo]

I can't really think of any culinary rule I break, exept that I am too lazy to sift my flour for cakes. They usually turn out fine anyway.

And I like my tea weak, and hold the sugar and milk. Sorry.

 

[TastyReuben]

Ok, so here's a "rule" that I think most have heard of. "don't drink red wine with fish"

Jacques Pepin, who was born into the restaurant industry in Lyon (a premier culinary area, to be sure), said about wine pairing that growing up, it was always white wine with the first course and red wine with the second course. Didn't matter one bit what the food was, and that was how he was raised, and to this day, that's generally what he does at home.

 

[garlichead]

Jacques Pepin, who was born into the restaurant industry in Lyon (a premier culinary area, to be sure), said about wine pairing that growing up, it was always white wine with the first course and red wine with the second course. Didn't matter one bit what the food was, and that was how he was raised, and to this day, that's generally what he does at home.

That interesting. Personally I try to match wine with the foods I'm serving. I also try and make sure the foods that pair well with less intense, less alcoholic be nearer the beginning of the meal and whether they're white or red doesn't really matter.

The last decade I've been basically making smaller plates with around 4 to 7 including dessert for a dinners. My first plate I generally start with a statement. The two that have become popular are bison tartare or tuna on a deep fried wonton rectangle and they have an Asian influence with a thin chili sliver as a garnish and I normally will use a pinot noir with both of those or could and have used used a pink sparkling with the tuna. A dinner party with 4 to 6 people is ideal considering 1 glass of wine is appropriate and anywhere around 4 oz is a good measure. Sometimes the same wine can continue to be used with other plates. Basically I don't have any rules when drinking wine other than if possible don't follow a big wine with one that is more austere and delicate, and I've been known to serve a cocktail with a course instead of wine.

 

[garlichead]

Another tasting menu offering that I do for special occasions or when requested is a rabbit liver mousse served on chicharrones with a drizzle of local honey which I add some slight heat to and serve it with a sauterne or an ice wine. Basically a sweet wine which could be and has been followed up with a totally different red or white wine.....I'm just saying again the order to which wines are served really depends on the individual and there is no right or wrong.....except maybe get the temp right to fully expose the wines full potential.