Do You Care if a Recipe is Authentic?

caseydog said:
It is my impression that the British version of Indian food is definitely not "traditional" Indian food.

CD
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There is a theory that Staffordshire oatcakes (think of a pancake made with oats and oatmeal and yeast, served with savoury items only, usually of the grilled cheese, cheese and onion, scrabbled egg, bacon and cheese type filling) came about from Indians and Pakistanis trying to recreate food from "home" with what ingredients they had to hand back in the UK (or military persons trying to recreate foods they had had out there in the "outposts of the empire". The theory is that Staffordshire oatcakes are based on chippati and naan bread.

Staffordshire (or Derbyshire for that matter), oatcakes are nothing like Scottish Oatcakes which are a small hard savoury biscuit. They are not widely know and not widely liked outside of the region, but in the Midlands in the UK, they are sold everywhere and from cafes and shops all over the place. Only recently have the last "hole in the wall" "shops" closed down. Behind said wall was a kitchen where they made them fresh each day from a yeasted liquid made of oats/oatmeal. Staffordshire oatcakes were traditionally made with water, Derbyshire oatcakes made with milk or a 50:50 mixture.
 
I consider authenticity important when cooking in a professional setting for restaurant guests who have a certain expectation about a cuisine they came for.
Otherwise when at home I don't really care, as long as it's made with love and tastes good. Though it does irk me sometimes when things get called something they are not because people don't know the origin of a dish. I try to educate them if they're interested in cooking, otherwise I let it slide.
 
caseydog said:
It is my impression that the British version of Indian food is definitely not "traditional" Indian food.
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Your impression is correct.
Although Indian food appeared in the UK way back in the 17th century, there were very few "Indian" restaurants over here until the mid 20th century.
During the 1960s, I believe, a Bangladeshi businessman came to the UK and opened one of the first "Curry Houses". His menu was simplicity itself: mild, medium and hot curries, with names drawn from all over India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Almost all the chefs in these restaurants came from Sylhet, a city in Bangladesh. His plan was brilliant: by concocting some basic "mother" sauces, or gravies, making some basic spice blends (like tandoori, garam masala)and having other ingredients readily prepared, the Curry House could whip up exotic dishes in a short while for the starving hordes. The basic gravy would have extra tomato sauce and yoghurt for a "Tikka Masala". A ladleful of caramelised onions would turn the gravy into "Do-Piaza". Leftover cooked meat was stir-fried with bell peppers, fresh chiles and onions to create "Jalfrezi", whilst a tablespoon of cream here and there would turn the dish into "korma". For the jaded British palate, dulled by the 2nd World War rations and a somewhat limited repertoire, The Curry Inn was a godsend. Additionally, the restaurants stayed open until midnight (pubs usually closed at 10.30 or 11pm) so a few pints and a curry was the perfect Saturday night out.
There probably were some authentic Indian restaurants in the country, but my first experience was in 2001, when I visited "Chutney Mary" in Chelsea. The owner had brought 5 chefs from 5 different regions of India, and the food was authentically regional - and a thousand times better than a "curry". Since 2001, many more real Indian restaurants have sprung up: Bombay Brasserie, Cinnamon Club (Michelin starred), Tamarind, and popular "street food" places like Dishoom and Masala Zone.
 
SatNavSaysStraightOn said:
There is a theory that Staffordshire oatcakes (think of a pancake made with oats and oatmeal and yeast, served with savoury items only, usually of the grilled cheese, cheese and onion, scrabbled egg, bacon and cheese type filling) came about from Indians and Pakistanis trying to recreate food from "home" with what ingredients they had to hand back in the UK (or military persons trying to recreate foods they had had out there in the "outposts of the empire". The theory is that Staffordshire oatcakes are based on chippati and naan bread.

Staffordshire (or Derbyshire for that matter), oatcakes are nothing like Scottish Oatcakes which are a small hard savoury biscuit. They are not widely know and not widely liked outside of the region, but in the Midlands in the UK, they are sold everywhere and from cafes and shops all over the place. Only recently have the last "hole in the wall" "shops" closed down. Behind said wall was a kitchen where they made them fresh each day from a yeasted liquid made of oats/oatmeal. Staffordshire oatcakes were traditionally made with water, Derbyshire oatcakes made with milk or a 50:50 mixture.
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Ever heard of "Corn Dodgers"?
 
karadekoolaid said:
Well yes, I understand your point completely. However, unless there is an " authentic" , ie. clearly original recipe, then there will never be fusion. For example, if Alfredo de Lelio had not been pulling his hair out, wondering what to cook for his pregnant wife in Rome, then there would never have been a " Fettucine Alfredo", and millions of Americans would not have been able to enjoy their own "Salsa Alfredo". If, in India, no-one had ever come up with a recipe for marinated chicken, cooked in a yoghurt and tomato sauce, then there would never have been "Chicken Tikka Masala" - the Brits´ favourite dish!
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well said. I do also enjoy the story from the origin of the classic and popular dishes.
Just do not agree to criticize others when everyone has the right to modify the recipes to suit their own taste.
 
blades said:
Not a whit. Recipes aren’t rules
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You're right: recipes are, generally speaking, guidelines. However, there are certain recipes which are, let's call them, works of art, or so special that they deserve respect. Robuchon's quail with foie Gras; Marco Pierre White's Leek and Lobster Terrine; Adria's Red Mullet Gaudi - and even something as simple as Arrigo Cipriani's Carpaccio. I personally find it rather offensive that people think they can slap circles of almost anything on a plate, slather them with pesto, mayonnaise, chimichurri or whatever, enclose the plate in a jungle of watercress, sliced mushrooms, arugula, sundried tomatoes, microgreens, and then have the nerve to call the dish "carpaccio".
 
SandwichShortOfAPicnic said:
I don't really understand why people get so strung out about it, it tastes good or it doesn't.
It just stifles creativity to view it any other way.
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Hey - as you say, if it looks and tastes good, I'm all for it. :hungry: :hungry:
However, I think it's a total lack of creativity to create a dish and not have the innovative sense to call it something new!
To give you a ridiculous example: how about you go to a restaurant, order Fish & Chips, and get served rollmops with Doritos? :laugh: :laugh:
 
karadekoolaid said:
Hey - as you say, if it looks and tastes good, I'm all for it. :hungry: :hungry:
However, I think it's a total lack of creativity to create a dish and not have the innovative sense to call it something new!
To give you a ridiculous example: how about you go to a restaurant, order Fish & Chips, and get served rollmops with Doritos? :laugh: :laugh:
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karadekoolaid said:
Robuchon's quail with foie Gras; Marco Pierre White's Leek and Lobster Terrine; Adria's Red Mullet Gaudi
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I think it's down to expectation, I wouldn't expect those dishes to taste the same anywhere else as they do cooked in their kitchen but I do expect a nod in the direction of whats written on the menu so I have at least a clue of what I'm ordering. Then again nowadays you can know the quality of the establishment before you even set foot in it.

I have occasionally been served something that is so far removed from whats expected (ie the original) that I am disappointed and that is down to the language used on the menu so I take your point.

It's also down to skill, should I not attempt the above dishes in my own way adjusted to suit my skill level? It's the same for a lot of the chefs out there, they don't have these superstars skills, staff or budget so a variation on a theme has to happen.

Roll mops and Doritos? I think you need to change restaurant 😆
 
SandwichShortOfAPicnic said:
I don't really understand why people get so strung out about it, it tastes good or it doesn't.
It just stifles creativity to view it any other way.
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But, there are limits. If someone made a vegetarian stew with NO chili peppers in it, and called it Texas Chili, I'd have a problem with that. And, when I see recipes for Turkey Shepherd's Pie, I feel compelled to correct them. If they call it Turkey Cottage pie, I'm okay with it.

CD
 
caseydog said:
But, there are limits. If someone made a vegetarian stew with NO chili peppers in it, and called it Texas Chili, I'd have a problem with that. And, when I see recipes for Turkey Shepherd's Pie, I feel compelled to correct them. If they call it Turkey Cottage pie, I'm okay with it.

CD
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Thats an interesting choice of example for a thread on authenticity.
Here's a little thing that inadvertently shows why impossible to stick to one authentic version.

10 things you didn’t know about shepherd’s pie | Jamie Oliver.
 
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