Replacing tinned tomatoes with fresh tomatoes

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:
But just for for reference, that Telegraph newspaper recipe does not actually state what size tin to use. And 4 tins of tomatoes to only serve 4 people is odd to me. Each 400g tin would ordinarily serve 2 people.
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I think the intention is that they are cooked for hours until they reduce right down.

This is a simple recipe. Frankly its not worth 'overthinking' it. Whatever the tomatoes used, they are cooked low and slow so you end up with a thick sauce because the water content evaporates. The only thing I'd say is that in the UK, if you use good quality fresh tomatoes from the supermarket this is going to work out as a very expensive tomato sauce due to the quantity needed!
 
Morning Glory said:
This is a simple recipe. Frankly its not worth 'overthinking' it. Whatever the tomatoes used, they are cooked low and slow so you end up with a thick sauce because the water content evaporates. The only thing I'd say is that in the UK, if you use good quality fresh tomatoes from the supermarket this is going to work out as a very expensive tomato sauce due to the quantity needed!
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I'd agree, though I'd also add that if you want to use fresh tomatoes you need to make sure you buy a plum variety not your normal salad tomatoes. Tinned tomatoes are almost always plum tomatoes, which have a lot more flesh and less juice/water compared to salad (normal) tomatoes. If you can't get fresh plum tomatoes and need to use ordinary salad tomatoes then I'd probably use at least double the weight (if not more) to try to get the same quantity of flesh.

All in all its probably far easier, and just as healthy, to use tinned.
 
Morning Glory said:
This is a simple recipe. Frankly its not worth 'overthinking' it.
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Yes; I looked at the recipe again and it takes just over 3 HOURS to make this sauce , so that explains the 4 tins of tomatoes. I´d imagine it´s a wonderfully rich, intense, sweetish sauce (thanks to the 3 onions).
Perhaps we´re trying to over-analyse and losing sight of its innate simplicity.
A bit like saying " a mechanical instrument consisting of blade and shaft for the efficient removal of detritus and topsoil" instead of thinking "shovel":D:D
 
When I make this recipe straight away divide it into portions then freeze.
I'm thinking of adding some more spices.
When should I add a tsp of basil, so that it's most effective? I can add it to the tomato sauce eg with the salt and pepper or add to the pizza.
Any other spices you would suggest? If so, when should I add them?
Given that I'm freezing the recipe, is there any value to the bay leaves. Being colour blind I find extracting the bay leaves at the end very challenging.

INGREDIENTS​

  • Olive oil
  • 3 onions, roughly chopped
  • 4 garlic cloves, roughly chopped
  • 2 tbsp tomato purée
  • 3 bay leaves
  • 2 small glasses of red wine
  • 4 400g tins chopped tomatoes in natural juice (Waitrose Essentials)
  • 1 tbsp sugar
  • 400g spaghetti

METHOD​

  1. Set a large pan with a lid over a low-medium heat with a good glug of oil. Add the onions along with a pinch of salt, pop the lid on and sweat until very soft (about 10 minutes). Then add the garlic and sweat for another couple of minutes.
  2. Turn up the heat, add the tomato purée and stir well. Then add the bay leaves and red wine and bring to a simmer.
  3. Add the chopped tomatoes, sugar and a little more salt and black pepper. Pop the lid on and leave to simmer on a very low heat for about three hours. Then remove the bay leaves and blitz until smooth with a hand blender.
  4. When you’re ready to eat, cook the spaghetti in a big pan of well salted boiling water until al dente.
 
OK. Here´s a serious, and perhaps brutal assessment, from someone who has been cooking Italian for 40 years, and in an Italian household.
  • You do not need to cook a tomato sauce for THREE hours. Are you trying to destroy it? Or are you looking for some version of tomato paste?
  • Your recipe is very straightforward, IMHO. Sweat the onions in olive oil; add the garlic and the bay leaves. Cook until the garlic begins to smell good.
  • Add the other ingredients (except the spaghetti) and cook "until the olive oil rises to the top". That´s it.Simple.
  • Italian tomato sauces contain herbs, perhaps - oregano, basil, parsley, mint. They rarely contain spices unless you include black pepper or peperoncini.
  • There´s no need to "blitz" a tomato sauce, unless you are a texture fanatic.
  • This sauce will last for at least 2 weeks in the fridge. In my house,it doesnt stand a chance of lasting that long.
 
Thank you. How much olive oil would you suggest? When would you add the herbs?
 
I usually add enough olive oil to cover the bottom of the saucepan. The question on herbs is a good one, because some people will say " put them in at the start, then the flavours will develop" and others will say "put them in near the end so they still taste fresh and vibrant". I often use oregano and basil with tomato sauce. The oregano goes in at the start, the basil at the end.
 
karadekoolaid said:
mint
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I agree with you on everything but this. No mint in our tomato sauce.

I’d add that although even in Italy some people tend to add a pinch of sugar to reduce tomato acidity (I admit I did this some time but just because I had only that at hand), adding a piece of carrot reduces it since carrot releases its natural sugar.
 
karadekoolaid said:
You´re absolutely right, of course. I´ve got no idea what made me write that; I can´t recall any Italian dish with mint in it, come to think of it!! :eek: :happy:
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Uh there are a lot of Italian recipes with mint in, especially in Campania (zucchine alla scapece, vinegar soaked fried courgette with mint and garlic), Sardinia (Culurgionis ravioli with a mint and potato filling) and Lazio (Vignarola, a vegetable side-dish with mint in, just to name one or snails, tripe, artichokes).
 
Is there a book or website which explains how and when to add spices in order to get the maximum flavour? For example, I'm thinking of Majoram, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme and don't want ask about each spice individually. I make quinoa, soup, pizza, porridge and sometimes cake and want to experiment on the basis of some understanding of how spices work. I've got the Science of Spice by Stuart Farrimond, but that has nothing on basil or sage.
 
Amateur1 said:
Is there a book or website which explains how and when to add spices in order to get the maximum flavour?
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The basic rule of thumb I follow is that dried herbs like the ones you listed get added nearer the beginning of cooking, to give them time to rehydrate, while fresh herbs, which are usually more delicate, are added nearer the end, so you don’t cook all their flavor out.

That’s just generally, though, as I’m sure there are exceptions (dried oregano sprinkled over pizza after it’s come out of the oven, for example).

I don’t have experience with any books about that, though I’m sure they’re out there.
 
Amateur1 said:
Is there a book or website which explains how and when to add spices in order to get the maximum flavour
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I´ve probably got a bit more experience cooking with herbs and spices than you, because I´ve been around since the Queen, RIP, was crowned.
My suggestion is to look on the web and find simple recipes with herbs/spices. For example, a tomato sauce with basil or oregano. A simple sautéed courgette recipe with cumin seeds. Potatoes with dill, or mint, or just parsley. A lentil dhal with turmeric and chiles.
You could also google things like "what goes with marjoram?" or "cooking with coriander" or " best recipes with black pepper", things like that.Start simple; look in the supermarket to see the most common herbs and spices and avoid esoteric products like, for example, borage, savory, epazote, ajwain, nigella, black cardamon seeds and yes, wattle seeds. Start with the easy stuff.
Gradually you will build a herb/spice memory and will understand instinctively which herbs/spices go best with which food item. I would not suggest buying a herb/spice bible quite yet, until you´ve got a basic knowledge of the simplest items.
 
I've just ordered this from Amazon. Let's hope it's good.

Spice and Herb Bible Paperback – Illustrated, 11 Sept. 2014​

by Ian Hemphill (Author), Kate Hemphill (Author)
karadekoolaid said:
I´ve probably got a bit more experience cooking with herbs and spices than you, because I´ve been around since the Queen, RIP, was crowned.
My suggestion is to look on the web and find simple recipes with herbs/spices. For example, a tomato sauce with basil or oregano. A simple sautéed courgette recipe with cumin seeds. Potatoes with dill, or mint, or just parsley. A lentil dhal with turmeric and chiles.
You could also google things like "what goes with marjoram?" or "cooking with coriander" or " best recipes with black pepper", things like that.Start simple; look in the supermarket to see the most common herbs and spices and avoid esoteric products like, for example, borage, savory, epazote, ajwain, nigella, black cardamon seeds and yes, wattle seeds. Start with the easy stuff.
Gradually you will build a herb/spice memory and will understand instinctively which herbs/spices go best with which food item. I would not suggest buying a herb/spice bible quite yet, until you´ve got a basic knowledge of the simplest items.
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Would you use this recipe for tomato sauce? Interesting that it doesn't have onions. Pizza Sauce Recipe - Homemade Pizza Sauce using Fresh Tomatoes I'm going to freeze this straight away. Would that make any difference in how I prepare it?
 
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