School systems

[TastyReuben]

First of two posts to show that class divisions isn’t just for others:

When I was…7, we moved to the house I was raised in, and that was 2nd grade in public (free) elementary school.

Unbeknownst to me at the time, partway through the school year, my teacher and the school principal pulled my parents aside, said they thought I might be “gifted,” and wanted to get me tested, and depending on the results, put me in advanced schooling.

My parents said no. Part of the reason was cost (it wasn’t totally free), transportation (no school-bus), but the main reason was, I found out later, my dad’s insistence that something like that “ain’t fer people like us!” - he always saw formal education as something to be suspicious of, as all the people who seemed to take the most advantage of other people were “highly educated,” meaning lawyers, bankers, and politicians, and there was no way he was going to facilitate any kid of his possibly ending up as one of those.

It never upset me to find that out, as I sailed through school with very little effort, and my personality type is not one that likes a high-pressure, competitive environment like that would have been (had I indeed been selected as gifted - I may have flunked all the testing, who knows?) - I’m not particularly driven or ambitious, so that would have been disastrous for me. I have enough anxiety as it is.

 

[Morning Glory]

First of two posts to show that class divisions isn’t just for others:

When I was…7, we moved to the house I was raised in, and that was 2nd grade in public (free) elementary school.

Unbeknownst to me at the time, partway through the school year, my teacher and the school principal pulled my parents aside, said they thought I might be “gifted,” and wanted to get me tested, and depending on the results, put me in advanced schooling.

My parents said no. Part of the reason was cost (it wasn’t totally free), transportation (no school-bus), but the main reason was, I found out later, my dad’s insistence that something like that “ain’t fer people like us!” - he always saw formal education as something to be suspicious of, as all the people who seemed to take the most advantage of other people were “highly educated,” meaning lawyers, bankers, and politicians, and there was no way he was going to facilitate any kid of his possibly ending up as one of those.

It never upset me to find that out, as I sailed through school with very little effort, and my personality type is not one that likes a high-pressure, competitive environment like that would have been (had I indeed been selected as gifted - I may have flunked all the testing, who knows?) - I’m not particularly driven or ambitious, so that would have been disastrous for me. I have enough anxiety as it is.

I think you are gifted. A very good writer with excellent observational skills. Just sayin'...

 

[TastyReuben]

I think you are gifted. A very good writer and such observational skills. Just sayin'...

Thank you, that’s very kind, and if so, I’ve wasted it…Nature may want a refund on her gift!

 

[Morning Glory]

Thank you, that’s very kind, and if so, I’ve wasted it…Nature may want a refund on her gift!

Not wasted. You are here!

 

[rascal]

A kiwi perspective I was 1 of 3 boys bought up in government house with only a mother. I never knew the word university. I left high school aged 14 and started work as a process worker.
I turned 15 6 weeks into my job in a sheet metal shop. I already knew i was clever as we all did a test pre high school to determine what class we ended up in.
I was in top class doing german and French . I was also a consumate reader devouring any book I could lay my hands on. Including weet bix packets . My best friend growing up was rich. A work vehicle ( dad was a sparky) 2 other cars and a jet boat.
We didn't get a car until I was 16.
I always said my kids ain't growing up like myself. I was gifted with a way of talking with people so a reps job was right up my street.
After learning the products I started my own company at 34. My kids had pretty good lives. Daughter went to uni and teachers college. Son followed me into business.
My mum used to say " I dont know where you got your brains from"
I put it down to reading.
I always read to my kids at night
Now my 15yo granddaughter is at private school and has 10 times more accessible stuff I never had.
I speak pretty good English. I say ask and not aks like a lot of people .
I've had a pretty good life and wouldn't change a lot.

Russ

 

[TastyReuben]

Ok, second story:

I grew up in a rural area, small farm, outside a well-to-do university town. The university rules the town, the town is there to serve the university, and everyone knows it.

That led to a lot of division at school, and the very first divider was whether your parents worked at the university, especially as a faculty member, administrator, etc. That was tops.

Bottom was…you guessed it, farm kids with blue collar backgrounds, which was my family. My dad wasn’t even a high school graduate (though he did quite well with what he had), we lived on a small farm, Dad owned and operated a sawmill on the place, and worked for a soft drinks bottling company…where he was upper management by the time I hit high school, but never mind…he wasn’t employed as a professor at the university, and my mom stayed home to raise kids and run the house.

Like I said earlier, school was no problem for me academically. I always targeted to get the second-best scores in any class, because I didn’t want the attention that first place brings, and I usually did. Didn’t matter the subject, and at the time I graduated, I was in the highest percentile of students, as far as my GPA went.

Now, midway through 11th grade (out of 12), all students have to meet with a guidance counselor, to go over post-high school plans, like university, or trade school, or straight into a factory job, or military…whatever.

My best friend…I had better marks than he had. He wasn’t far behind, but mine we better. He met with his guidance counselor, and when we talked later, the guidance counselor laid out a university plan for him; what prep classes to take in high school, how to work with admissions, how to apply, how to find scholarships and financial aid, if necessary.

I was quite excited by that - no one in my family had ever attended college, and I wasn’t sure at all of the specifics of it, and it sounded like I was going to get all the facts when I had my meeting.

Well, I had my meeting, same counselor:

“Ok…TastyReuben…where’s your dad work?”
“At the bottling plant in Fairfield, and he owns a sawmill, custom sawing.”
“Right…and your mom?”
“Housewife.”
Just curious…I remember your brothers. What’re they doing now?”
“Two work at the bottling plant where my Dad works, one is an electrician, and one’s in the Army, career Army.”
“Ok…well, maybe something like that will work out for you. Maybe your dad can get you a job at ‘the plant,’ or you could always join the Army. Sign here that we met, please.”

Lasted less than 10 minutes, and graduating near the top of my class didn’t mean anything. As soon as he knew who my family was, that was set, as far as he cared.

My best friend, by contrast, his dad was a pre-med professor, and his mom was one of the university librarians. That’s why he got on the higher education track, and I got the manual labor track.

I didn’t start university classes until I’d been in the Air Force for a few years, and had assistance from their education counselors in demystifying the whole university process, and then I was irritated with my high school counselor for trying to pigeonhole me all those years before.

 

[karadekoolaid]

The corporate world you were part of, couldn’t stand anymore and left?
We don’t have to aim for the lowest rung, or be ruled over by psychos.
Unless you think we’re all utterly powerless and at the mercy of forces beyond our control?

Yes, I left, and started out all on my own at the age of 50. I was tired of getting ordered around by a bunch of immature punks. I was my own boss at last, and when I pulled a 16 hour day, I had the satisfaction of knowing it was for my company.
I recently watched a video interview with Alan Sugar (born and raised in Hackney, now a billionaire). A recent Oxford graduate asked him for a job, and Sugar said no. No, because life doesn't just give you things . If you really want something, you have to go and find it for yourself, not wait around to see if someone gives it to you. And you have to do that by yourself, regardless of your background or upbringing or your political preferences.
I met a school friend from primary school while I was in England, purely by chance. He left school at 15, and started a construction company,which now bills over a million quid a year.
Another bloke from our snobby grammar school, really bright, top of the class... he ended up working at the local paper mill (until it closed) as a labourer.
Doesn't matter whether you've got an advantage or not; you become successful and make money if you're resourceful.

 

[karadekoolaid]

Deciding a kids future on the basis of one exam (as in the case of Grammar schools) is surely not fair?

I agree, but then you get one exam (or group of exams) at university, in your specialised subject, and if you fail, you're out. Is that fair?
The 11+ - I can't even remember taking it. My neighbour failed it and went to secondary school. 6 years later, he'd passed 8 O levels and was admitted to the 6th form at the grammar. Got into Cambridge with a scholarship from the RAF and he retired as a Wing Commander.
I got my degree in Music and never ever used it. Is that fair? No, perhaps, but then life is not fair by any stretch of the imagination. If you want to achieve something, then you have to do it yourself.

 

[karadekoolaid]

Thank you, that’s very kind, and if so, I’ve wasted it

No you haven't. You're perfectly happy doing what you do and being who you are. Would you qualify that as waste? I wouldn't. Success in life is not measured by how high you have climbed the corporate ladder: it's a question of how you feel about what you've done with your life. You're happy with your lot, love your wife, that's it. As my BIL says, it is what it is.
My mum used to reproach me because I wasn't a professional baritone. BUT, if I had followed that route, I wouldn't have been able to play cricket twice every weekend, which is what I really loved doing.

 

[rascal]

Ok, second story:

I grew up in a rural area, small farm, outside a well-to-do university town. The university rules the town, the town is there to serve the university, and everyone knows it.

That led to a lot of division at school, and the very first divider was whether your parents worked at the university, especially as a faculty member, administrator, etc. That was tops.

Bottom was…you guessed it, farm kids with blue collar backgrounds, which was my family. My dad wasn’t even a high school graduate (though he did quite well with what he had), we lived on a small farm, Dad owned and operated a sawmill on the place, and worked for a soft drinks bottling company…where he was upper management by the time I hit high school, but never mind…he wasn’t employed as a professor at the university, and my mom stayed home to raise kids and run the house.

Like I said earlier, school was no problem for me academically. I always targeted to get the second-best scores in any class, because I didn’t want the attention that first place brings, and I usually did. Didn’t matter the subject, and at the time I graduated, I was in the highest percentile of students, as far as my GPA went.

Now, midway through 11th grade (out of 12), all students have to meet with a guidance counselor, to go over post-high school plans, like university, or trade school, or straight into a factory job, or military…whatever.

My best friend…I had better marks than he had. He wasn’t far behind, but mine we better. He met with his guidance counselor, and when we talked later, the guidance counselor laid out a university plan for him; what prep classes to take in high school, how to work with admissions, how to apply, how to find scholarships and financial aid, if necessary.

I was quite excited by that - no one in my family had ever attended college, and I wasn’t sure at all of the specifics of it, and it sounded like I was going to get all the facts when I had my meeting.

Well, I had my meeting, same counselor:

“Ok…TastyReuben…where’s your dad work?”
“At the bottling plant in Fairfield, and he owns a sawmill, custom sawing.”
“Right…and your mom?”
“Housewife.”
Just curious…I remember your brothers. What’re they doing now?”
“Two work at the bottling plant where my Dad works, one is an electrician, and one’s in the Army, career Army.”
“Ok…well, maybe something like that will work out for you. Maybe your dad can get you a job at ‘the plant,’ or you could always join the Army. Sign here that we met, please.”

Lasted less than 10 minutes, and graduating near the top of my class didn’t mean anything. As soon as he knew who my family was, that was set, as far as he cared.

My best friend, by contrast, his dad was a pre-med professor, and his mom was one of the university librarians. That’s why he got on the higher education track, and I got the manual labor track.

I didn’t start university classes until I’d been in the Air Force for a few years, and had assistance from their education counselors in demystifying the whole university process, and then I was irritated with my high school counselor for trying to pigeonhole me all those years before.

So you had a chance through the air force. I get that.
I tried to join the army as a chef to get experience. Guess what?? My deputy principal at school was high up in the territorials ( part time army) he turned my application down. Then announced it at school assembly about your past can stop your progress in this world.
I hated that #$@$%. So cooking took a backwards step.
Did I mention I hated that ##$%#
??

Russ

 

[rascal]

Yes, I left, and started out all on my own at the age of 50. I was tired of getting ordered around by a bunch of immature punks. I was my own boss at last, and when I pulled a 16 hour day, I had the satisfaction of knowing it was for my company.
I recently watched a video interview with Alan Sugar (born and raised in Hackney, now a billionaire). A recent Oxford graduate asked him for a job, and Sugar said no. No, because life doesn't just give you things . If you really want something, you have to go and find it for yourself, not wait around to see if someone gives it to you. And you have to do that by yourself, regardless of your background or upbringing or your political preferences.
I met a school friend from primary school while I was in England, purely by chance. He left school at 15, and started a construction company,which now bills over a million quid a year.
Another bloke from our snobby grammar school, really bright, top of the class... he ended up working at the local paper mill (until it closed) as a labourer.
Doesn't matter whether you've got an advantage or not; you become successful and make money if you're resourceful.

My best friend at high school came from a good family. The first time I had a cooked brekky was his place. Man they had money.
They had 3 kids. Vicky ran away to Sydney at 17.
Michael.( my mate) always in trouble with the law. Disappeared overseas never to be heard of again.
Grant last I heard he was in Auckland on drugs and served 2 prison sentences for sexual perversion.
Yeah I agree money isnt everything.

Russ

 

[SandwichShortOfAPicnic]

Ok, second story:

I grew up in a rural area, small farm, outside a well-to-do university town. The university rules the town, the town is there to serve the university, and everyone knows it.

That led to a lot of division at school, and the very first divider was whether your parents worked at the university, especially as a faculty member, administrator, etc. That was tops.

Bottom was…you guessed it, farm kids with blue collar backgrounds, which was my family. My dad wasn’t even a high school graduate (though he did quite well with what he had), we lived on a small farm, Dad owned and operated a sawmill on the place, and worked for a soft drinks bottling company…where he was upper management by the time I hit high school, but never mind…he wasn’t employed as a professor at the university, and my mom stayed home to raise kids and run the house.

Like I said earlier, school was no problem for me academically. I always targeted to get the second-best scores in any class, because I didn’t want the attention that first place brings, and I usually did. Didn’t matter the subject, and at the time I graduated, I was in the highest percentile of students, as far as my GPA went.

Now, midway through 11th grade (out of 12), all students have to meet with a guidance counselor, to go over post-high school plans, like university, or trade school, or straight into a factory job, or military…whatever.

My best friend…I had better marks than he had. He wasn’t far behind, but mine we better. He met with his guidance counselor, and when we talked later, the guidance counselor laid out a university plan for him; what prep classes to take in high school, how to work with admissions, how to apply, how to find scholarships and financial aid, if necessary.

I was quite excited by that - no one in my family had ever attended college, and I wasn’t sure at all of the specifics of it, and it sounded like I was going to get all the facts when I had my meeting.

Well, I had my meeting, same counselor:

“Ok…TastyReuben…where’s your dad work?”
“At the bottling plant in Fairfield, and he owns a sawmill, custom sawing.”
“Right…and your mom?”
“Housewife.”
Just curious…I remember your brothers. What’re they doing now?”
“Two work at the bottling plant where my Dad works, one is an electrician, and one’s in the Army, career Army.”
“Ok…well, maybe something like that will work out for you. Maybe your dad can get you a job at ‘the plant,’ or you could always join the Army. Sign here that we met, please.”

Lasted less than 10 minutes, and graduating near the top of my class didn’t mean anything. As soon as he knew who my family was, that was set, as far as he cared.

My best friend, by contrast, his dad was a pre-med professor, and his mom was one of the university librarians. That’s why he got on the higher education track, and I got the manual labor track.

I didn’t start university classes until I’d been in the Air Force for a few years, and had assistance from their education counselors in demystifying the whole university process, and then I was irritated with my high school counselor for trying to pigeonhole me all those years before.

Sadly a very common tale.
But from what I see here you turned into a lovely person and have lived a good life.
That to me doesn’t look wasted at all. It’s a success most people will never achieve.
Congrats

 

[Morning Glory]

General mod comment: please avoid making arguments personalised. We all have different views. Arguments and counter arguments can be made without aiming them at individuals.