The ethics of food production

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:
If I can locate my reference I will add them to this, but over 70% of the top 5 (it could be top 7 by weight) grain crops grown in North America actually go to feed for animals, not humans.

So it strikes me that 70% off that run off is actually going to feed those eating meat, leaving only 30% going to plant based food or general grain/legume crop based foodss (so include bread, and corn/polenta in that. In certain soy was also included in this figure, so it must be top x many crops, not grain crops. I'm clarify when i locate my reference).

Those not eating meat, certainly don't account for all of that 30% which I suspect is why those eating meat are the ones generally being targeted.

I'll try to find my source. It made for an interesting read, but I also need to do my physio and hubby will be home in an hour, so it may be tomorrow before I can locate those figures.
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Corn is heavily subsidised here, so it is used for everything, even ethanol to blend with gasoline as an oxygenator.

As for runoff, ask fisherman in the Gulf of Mexico about that. Of course, I'm sure fertilizers are only used on crops fed to animals that we kill to eat. Vegan food, at least the REAL vegan food, is naturally fertilized by unicorn poop. :okay:

CD
 
There are even vegan farms that use green fertilizer, no poop. EDIT let's call it super tiny poop that was made by things you can't see with your eyes
BTW a colleague just mentioned Israeli scientists found out plants can actually feel something similar to pain when cut and eaten.
But I guess most vegan are doing it so the world could be more happy, not the animals.
 
I just had a ham and cheese sandwich with mayo. Pig, dairy cow and chicken eggs. The bread was probably vegetarian, but I doubt it would qualify as vegan.

CD
 
When you go into a supermarket in the US or in the UK, every single vegetable and fruit is identical in size. Perfect peppers, 6 inch carrots, potatoes which seem to have been cloned from a single specimen, perfectly round tomatoes the size of golf balls, etc, etc.
So what happens to the veg that do not conform to Barbie & Ken perfection? They're rejected, and used for processed food, or animal food, or simply composted. WHAT A WASTE! Personally, I love small vegetables, when I can get them, because they're more tender and sweeter, but they're just not available. "Wonky" veg are rejected by the big supermarkets, leaving tons and tons of perfectly edible food to rot. That's not ethical, IMHO, and I'm sure that drives up the prices. Nor is it ethical to wrap the damn things in cellophane packets so they look pretty.
 
caseydog said:
I just had a ham and cheese sandwich with mayo. Pig, dairy cow and chicken eggs. The bread was probably vegetarian, but I doubt it would qualify as vegan.

CD
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I'm not sure what your point is here.

As some may know my son (when he lived here a few years back)decided to become vegan. I have to say it was one of the best cooking journeys I've been on and has informed the cooking I do now. At first I was daunted - no cheese, no eggs, no meat = no umami! I rapidly learned that cooking vegan means really knowing how to use flavour. It was a steep learning curve but I don't regret it one bit. I now know more about how to use spices, herbs and other plant based flavours than I ever did before.
 
karadekoolaid said:
When you go into a supermarket in the US or in the UK, every single vegetable and fruit is identical in size. Perfect peppers, 6 inch carrots, potatoes which seem to have been cloned from a single specimen, perfectly round tomatoes the size of golf balls, etc, etc.
So what happens to the veg that do not conform to Barbie & Ken perfection? They're rejected, and used for processed food, or animal food, or simply composted. WHAT A WASTE! Personally, I love small vegetables, when I can get them, because they're more tender and sweeter, but they're just not available. "Wonky" veg are rejected by the big supermarkets, leaving tons and tons of perfectly edible food to rot. That's not ethical, IMHO, and I'm sure that drives up the prices. Nor is it ethical to wrap the damn things in cellophane packets so they look pretty.
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There are some stores that have a section of less attractive fruits and veggies at a reduced price. Not common, but it is a bit of a trend.

CD
 
Yeah in France the major supermarkets try to get rid of most of the plastic wrappers as they benefit mold and the "experts" came to conclusion most veggies can survive longer if not wrapped in plastic
Edit vegan umami can be obtained by dried mushrooms or plain MSG
 
Morning Glory said:
I'm not sure what your point is here.
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My first point is that pretty much every meal I eat would fall short of the qualification of "vegan."

My other point is that there is some middle ground, like eating less meat and more veggies. As a parallel, it is like cutting greenhouse gas emissions, one can make a choice between getting rid of their car and walk everywhere, or simply decide to drive less, and walk more. If millions of people chose to do the latter, it would make a big difference.

CD
 
PabloLerntKochen said:
Yeah in France the major supermarkets try to get rid of most of the plastic wrappers as they benefit mold and the "experts" came to conclusion most veggies can survive longer if not wrapped in plastic
Edit vegan umami can be obtained by dried mushrooms or plain MSG
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Most fresh veggies in the US are just loose in baskets or on shelves in the US.

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CD
 
Yeah but most people, including me, might think that their way of live is the right one and changing it would be utterly stupid.
For example, I don’t think it's necessary that everybody has to be vegan. Then there follows another argument and you just might think you already had the exact same discussion at least twice without changing anything :roflmao:

When we don't want to end, where all the calculations from the scientists end, we've to change.
A big one would to actually start to enjoy making the world better for the next generations, not only for ourself. Of course we shouldn't get rid of all pleasures, but maybe we could live with slightly smaller soccer world cups and aim for better global education
 
PabloLerntKochen said:
Yeah but most people, including me, might think that their way of live is the right one and changing it would be utterly stupid.
For example, I don’t think it's necessary that everybody has to be vegan. Then there follows another argument and you just might think you already had the exact same discussion at least twice without changing anything :roflmao:

When we don't want to end, where all the calculations from the scientists end, we've to change.
A big one would to actually start to enjoy making the world better for the next generations, not only for ourself. Of course we shouldn't get rid of all pleasures, but maybe we could live with slightly smaller soccer world cups and aim for better global education
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I look at these things through the lens of what is realistic. It is no more realistic to expect everyone to give up meat, than it is to expect everyone to give up the use of fossil fuels, at least in the short term.

However, it is realistic to just eat less meat, or use less fossil fuel. Over the last few years, I have cut my driving by about 50-percent, and don't see it as a sacrifice. It is my new normal. I can realistically see myself reducing meat consumption, perhaps by 50-percent over a similar amount of time.

CD
 
PabloLerntKochen said:
A big one would to actually start to enjoy making the world better for the next generations, not only for ourself.
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That's a noble statement, but very unlikely to happen. You'll probably find that the vast majority of the world population is only interested in survival and/or enjoying what they already have.
 
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