Zabaione / Zabaglione / Sabayon (Sauce)

[Morning Glory]

Whisking egg yolks and wine is neither a sabayon or a hollandaise even though the chef may call it one of those. I really can't even imagine serving that because I've tasted the whisked yolks before adding clarified butter and it really isn't something I would ever serve or even consider by itself, but each to their own.

But the sweet traditional sabayon doesn't contain butter either - so are you saying that its the sugar content which makes the yolks OK? I thought it was more a question of how cooked the yolks are in terms of taste. But I'm not particularly recommending a savoury application. I'd have to try it myself to be sure!

I suppose its now on my list of things I intend to do...

 

[Morning Glory]

The plot thickens! I looked up Sabayon on Larrouse - at the very end of the entry which describes this frothy dessert there is a paragraph:

The term 'sabayon' is also applied to a sort of mousseline sauce, usually made with champagene and served with fish or shellfish

This would explain the sauce used in Sous Vide Monkfish Wrapped In Parma Ham With Cockles, plus some other examples I've found by well known chefs.

 

[flyinglentris]

It's basically an exercise in a change can be objectively better or considered an improvement. Similarly we could exchange a savory cream sauce for creme anglaise, so can we make a creme anglaise without sugar?

The question shouldn't be whether we can make a hollandaise without butter or a creme anglaise without sugar, it's imperative that we understand the difference so it doesn't eventually get muddled in years to come. These are classics for a good reason. Of course if we follow this logic then why couldn't we call a sabayon a hollandaise.

In my initial post which opened this thread, I stated that I might consider zabaione sauce as a 'substitute' for Hollandaise, not as a modified version of Hollandaise. The substitute sauce would be something entirely different, but used in the similar context.

Zabaione has three ingredients, egg yolks, sugar and a liquid flavoring component. The traditional liquid component is Marsala wine, but zabaione is described to be quite flexible in terms of what the liquid can be. The amount of sugar is not set in stone either. I am not opposed to having sugar as part of a savory sauce. In some contexts, it is legit. I referred to Chinese cuisine to help place a finger on that matter.

I appreciate that Morning Glory did some research and turned up some example recipes from good sources where the zabaione/sabayon sauce was put in use.

I started this thread as I found it remarkable that a dessert custard should have applications as a savory sauce and desired to share that and get some opinions while doing so.

The savory use of zabaione is an excellent example of creative license in food and an evolution by breaking traditional bounds. The arguments about traditional restrictions on recipes and preserving the 'name' definition of recipes has been aired many times at CB. I am not in the camp of those who adhere to such strictness and am willing to press the bounds of inventive cooking. The world of cuisines is not a static element and never has been. Every traditional recipe has evolved by moving from some original concept, albeit that progress was never recorded in writing. There was only an agreement on a classic referant.

So there in, is reason why I found this savory use of a dessert custard appealing. The sweetness of the sauces is clearly open to modification and the savory sauces derived should be acceptable to most chefs. And for those of us who have never considered it, it is something to mark and be open to trying..

 

[garlichead]

The plot thickens! I looked up Sabayon on Larrouse - at the very end of the entry which describes this frothy dessert there is a paragraph:



This would explain the sauce used in Sous Vide Monkfish Wrapped In Parma Ham With Cockles, plus some other examples I've found by well known chefs.

MG could you post the actual recipe. I can seem to link up to the recipe. thanks.

In reference to Larrouse. A sort of mousseline is a reference to the technique of whipping egg yolks, which is true but a moussiline is made with butter so different than a sabayon and then cream that is whipped is also added near the end.

Ok, my last statement made me pause. Sometimes classic preparation can be obsolete or not used very much so I did a quick look at a few French recipes and references from books I own because French cooking is what I was primarily trained in.

I stand corrected.

A sabayon is the French version of the Italian zabaglione and do use sugar but use wine/champagne instead of Masala. Basically what most would consider a sabayon, and I did

I have a reference when making mousseline that during the instructions that we bring the eggs & water to the sabayon stage, which made my pause but then went on to say that after the butter was added and incorporated to then the whipped heavy cream be added to the hollandaise to finish, making this a mousseline sauce. So we have 3 stages, a sabayon, a hollandaise, then finally a mousseline.

Thanks FL and MG I learned something new today.

 

[flyinglentris]

MG could you post the actual recipe. I can seem to link up to the recipe. thanks.

In reference to Larrouse. A sort of mousseline is a reference to the technique of whipping egg yolks, which is true but a moussiline is made with butter so different than a sabayon and then cream that is whipped is also added near the end.

Ok, my last statement made me pause. Sometimes classic preparation can be obsolete or not used very much so I did a quick look at a few French recipes and references from books I own because French cooking is what I was primarily trained in.

I stand corrected.

A sabayon is the French version of the Italian zabaglione and do use sugar but use wine/champagne instead of Masala. Basically what most would consider a sabayon, and I did

I have a reference when making mousseline that during the instructions that we bring the eggs & water to the sabayon stage, which made my pause but then went on to say that after the butter was added and incorporated to then add the whipped heavy cream be added into the hollandaise to finish the mousseline sauce. So we have 3 stages, a sabayon, a hollandaise, then finally a mousseline.

Thanks FL and MG I learned something new today.

Put that in the "What did you learn about cooking" thread.

 

[Morning Glory]

Thanks FL and MG I learned something new today.

So did I !

In terms of cream being added to the mousseline I've found various different instructions. Some use whipping cream and some have no cream at all.

The recipe I referenced from Chris Horridge describes this in terms of making the mousseline (no cream).

For the sabayon, combine the egg yolks and water in bowl. Whisk with a balloon whisk over a bain-marie set to 90°C or a pan of simmering water

• 50ml of water
• 3 egg yolks

Take off the heat, then continue whisking until it reaches 70°C, it should be light and fluffy. Whisk in the butter gradually to stop it splitting. Season first with salt then lemon juice

• 70g of butter
• 1 pinch of salt
• 1 lemon

 

[garlichead]

So did I !

In terms of cream being added to the mousseline I've found various different instructions. Some use whipping cream and some have no cream at all.

The recipe I referenced from Chris Horridge describes this in terms of making the mousseline (no cream).

Following my logic that there is a difference between sabayon, hollandaise and mousseline Chris's recipe is technically a hollandaise and not a mousseline. Can you leave out the cream, sure you can, but is it technically accurate? Not as far as I'm concerned because the difference is not only in appearance but taste, mouthfeel and consistency.

 

[Morning Glory]

Chris's recipe is technically a hollandaise

Not sure - his recipe contains more water than a traditional hollandaise I think? So I am supposing that would make it lighter.

Edit. Technically I don't think hollandaise contains water?

 

[garlichead]

It's the addition of whipped heavy cream that is then folded into the hollandaise that makes mousseline, it's difficult to describe MG but this is totally different than hollandaise, and you'd have to experience the difference and then you'd understand they are not even close. that might be something you might try just for giggles. Also vinegars can be used as a substitute or with some lemon, which is reminiscent to another derivative being béarnaise.

 

[garlichead]

Not sure - his recipe contains more water than a traditional hollandaise I think? So I am supposing that would make it lighter.

Edit. Technically I don't think hollandaise contains water?

To confuse the issue more when the French version of zabaglione is made the sabayon is made where there's no water just yolks, wine and sugar, similar to the Italian version.

As described in my cookbooks when making mousseline a sabayon is egg yolks and water and a stage in preparation, which will give volume and Chris then added yolks and no cream but still described it as a mousseline, is it, no not really but again anyone can describe anything on a menu and get away with it.

We don't get the volume or consistency needed by whipping egg yolks on their own to make that stand alone as a sauce. When water is added there's an emulsification that suspends the fat and protein in the yolks creating volume and adding lemon juice you could call it a sauce on it's own, but I wouldn't and I suspect as it cools on the plate the water will separate but when making hollandaise or mousseline there are other components that help further suspend those fats and protein. Also when making a hollandaise water isn't needed for the consistency required. for the mousseline it's the lightness of the sauce that makes people go oh ah and omg and you get that by lightening the hollandaise and it's done both with water which makes it lighter and then with the folding in of heavy creme making it lighter still. Can you call it a mousseline without heavy cream? A lighter version of hollandaise possibly but not adding cream is not truly understanding what mousseline is. It's a kind of light butter where water is whipped in or a no fat milk where it's thought to be healthier, without understanding how that may effect the actual product, but who really knows why he decided to describe it on the menu like this.

 

[Morning Glory]

Today, I got round to making a savoury sabayon (with no butter) - so basically a sweet sabayon minus the sugar but with some stock as well as alcohol. It worked well (I think!). I'll be posting up the recipe as part of a cabbage recipe for the current challenge. Meanwhile, here is a photo: