mjd
Veteran
Yes. That is what I meant. Usually, a knife, fork and spoon are already pre-wrapped in a napkin which the hosts puts on the table when seating. A new set is not delivered with dessert unless specifically asked for.
Dining Etiquette
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Yes. That is what I meant. Usually, a knife, fork and spoon are already pre-wrapped in a napkin which the hosts puts on the table when seating. A new set is not delivered with dessert unless specifically asked for.
flyinglentris
Disabled and Retired Veteran
When you are dining in a restaurant and are provided with silverware rolled in a towel, do you unroll the towel and lay it on the table, placing the silverware on it, or do you place the silverware on the table or plate matte and drape the towel over your knee? - or do you tuck it into your shirt neck under your chin?
Cutlery - I've always understood to mean a set of eating utensils (knife, fork, and spoon). In my experience, the most common word that I hear is "silverware," regardless of what it's actually made of (except in the case of plastic picnic utensils, then it's just, "Where's the forks?").
Napkin/serviette or whatever you happen to call it, that goes in my lap. That was one of my wife's grandmother's 1001 Rules At The Table - napkins never, ever, ever under any circumstances whatsoever, once unfolded, ever go on the table. In your lap, and if you have to excuse yourself from the table for an emergency of some sort, then it gets placed on your seat.
She was also the first one to instruct me in the secret code of the arrangement of utensils on a plate, once the meal started, meaning, if you placed your knife down on one side of the plate, at roughly a 45-degree angle, and placed your fork down the other side in an opposing 45-degree angle, that was a signal to the waiter that you're not finished eating, you're just resting a bit. However, if you place your knife and fork parallel to one another at a 45-degree angle across the plate, that was a signal that you were finished and the waiter should immediately clear the dirty dishes away.
That's another thing - we'd go out to eat with her, fairly nice places at that, and she'd be crestfallen as soon as she spotted a woman waiting tables. To her, the mark of a fine restaurant was an all-male waitstaff, no women allowed: "It cheapens the whole place...may as well eat in a saloon!"
Napkin/serviette or whatever you happen to call it, that goes in my lap. That was one of my wife's grandmother's 1001 Rules At The Table - napkins never, ever, ever under any circumstances whatsoever, once unfolded, ever go on the table. In your lap, and if you have to excuse yourself from the table for an emergency of some sort, then it gets placed on your seat.
She was also the first one to instruct me in the secret code of the arrangement of utensils on a plate, once the meal started, meaning, if you placed your knife down on one side of the plate, at roughly a 45-degree angle, and placed your fork down the other side in an opposing 45-degree angle, that was a signal to the waiter that you're not finished eating, you're just resting a bit. However, if you place your knife and fork parallel to one another at a 45-degree angle across the plate, that was a signal that you were finished and the waiter should immediately clear the dirty dishes away.
That's another thing - we'd go out to eat with her, fairly nice places at that, and she'd be crestfallen as soon as she spotted a woman waiting tables. To her, the mark of a fine restaurant was an all-male waitstaff, no women allowed: "It cheapens the whole place...may as well eat in a saloon!"
mjd
Veteran
I usually don't unwrap them until the food arrives unless I order iced tea and need the spoon to add the sugar. The cutlery goes on the placemat or the edge of the plate and the napkin in my lap.
mjd
Veteran
I don't mean any offense to you or your grandma but it always shocks me to hear things like this. I've heard it enough that I should be used to it but it still catches me by surprise.
Timenspace
Legendary Member
Thank you for writing back. I see what you mean now. But can it be, that the spoon rolled in a napkin is a small dessert spoon, and would not be used for e.g. soup anyways, so it would be 'reserved' to et the dessert, say ice-cream, later on'. Or is it a tablespoon? Or any other third option? Or is it perhaps unusual to have desserts at those type of restaurants, perhaps they don't serve desserts? Or maybe offer ice-cream in cones or on sticks, in a deep freeze section somewhere...
I am sure not all restaurants do this...
Where was this particular one, if you don't mind me asking?
No offense to me, and she's dead and gone many years now. Once I got to know her a little, I used to quite enjoy learning about all her goofy rules for, well, everything. It was a real window into another time and place.
And just to be clear, by "saloon," she meant brothel, but she was too much of a lady to say that.
Timenspace
Legendary Member
The cutlery/silverware positioning, yes, familiar. Napkin,yes, in a nice restaurant where you get a cotton one, sure.
Well, I honestly have never heard of all-male waitstaff, before, but that means nothing, as I am a learning ninja
Timenspace
Legendary Member
And I do not mean to get into the whole women equality theme...at all.
Those are remains of a past that whether we like it or not, have been such...
There is a famous notion that the Wiener Philharmonic did not admit female musicians to audition until 1997. Change has come, and now the orchestra has 15 women musicians...
mjd
Veteran
I've only lived in two states here in the US - Illinois and North Carolina. I was a District Manager at one company so traveled every week and an event planner at another so I've been in a gazillion restaurants. The setup has been the same in all of them except for very high end restaurants.
Basically, the cutlery (butter knife, spoon (tea) and fork) are wrapped in a napkin (paper) and set on the table when the host/hostess seats you. Any other utensils needed arrive with the meal (ie. soup spoon, steak knife). The only time I've seen a dessert spoon is at a nostalgia hamburger restaurant in Chicago that made real milkshakes. Those came in the tall shake tumblers with a long spoon.
The only difference at a high-end restaurant is the napkin (cloth) and cutlery are already on the table (the host/hostess removes the extras based on the number in your party) and dessert comes with clean utensils (of the proper size).
mjd
Veteran
No, I understand the table etiquette. I just don't understand why women discriminate against one another.No offense to me, and she's dead and gone many years now. Once I got to know her a little, I used to quite enjoy learning about all her goofy rules for, well, everything. It was a real window into another time and place.
And just to be clear, by "saloon," she meant brothel, but she was too much of a lady to say that.
P.S. The meaning was clear in your first post on it. ;-) It's funny because I recently started back on my hobby of digital scrapbooking so I get hundreds of emails a day with various graphic designs. The theme for this week is the "Wild, wild west" so I've been getting cowboy boots, saloons, horses, etc. and a ton of scantily clad women in nothing but chaps and bikini tops. Granted, I'm not an expert on horse riding but I'm pretty sure women don't ride horses halfway naked. ;-)
Timenspace
Legendary Member
Wow, you were in the event business? Amazing! That is such a vivacious industry, or was preCovid...
Well, I guess those are just different serving habits...that explains it, except for the tea, does tea not come with a spoon on its own (like the soup spoon or steaka knife)? As you said, what is the client supposed to do, if she/he already used the teaspoon for the tea, and will eat creme caramel as dessert? Would you say the spoon for the creme would arrive with the creme? Or the client would ask for a new spoon? I'd assume asking for another spoon is no big deal?
How did you feel about it? Did you have thoughts or needs for it to be changed? In what way?
Timenspace
Legendary Member