How is the corona virus affecting you?

Windigo said:
Lucky for getting a booster! If I get any of those it will be january at least. That is if.

Untortunate however that you are otherwise in the same boat 😕
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Yeah, the broken arrow mentality will never work properly and unfortunately most countries aren't collecting enough or any data to parse out an effective alternative that is more focused, well a few have. This is a fatal error which will not bode well in future world medical emergencies. For example look at Ireland where some counties there that are 95% double vaxxed are seeing the highest daily covid cases with the highest hospitalization as well. Singapore and Israel, same story. It's just inevitable that when a population is mostly double vaxxed with a waning vaccine that this is going to happen. And when you have social media totally banning any conversations regarding the effectiveness of the vaccines it can be written off as political. Since when are fact checkers aka journalists somehow have the ultimate authority on what we can see or read, ridiculous imo. I like to look at this as a world problem because other gov'ts and professional people that specialize voice their opinion. Based on Science in NA is a sham and when used in the context of "the Science says" my hackles go up. Anyway hopefully things get better for Netherlands soon.
 
garlichead said:
Yeah, the broken arrow mentality will never work properly and unfortunately most countries aren't collecting enough or any data to parse out an effective alternative that is more focused, well a few have. This is a fatal error which will not bode well in future world medical emergencies. For example look at Ireland where some counties there that are 95% double vaxxed are seeing the highest daily covid cases with the highest hospitalization as well. Singapore and Israel, same story. It's just inevitable that when a population is mostly double vaxxed with a waning vaccine that this is going to happen. And when you have social media totally banning any conversations regarding the effectiveness of the vaccines it can be written off as political. Since when are fact checkers aka journalists somehow have the ultimate authority on what we can see or read, ridiculous imo. I like to look at this as a world problem because other gov'ts and professional people that specialize voice their opinion. Based on Science in NA is a sham and when used in the context of "the Science says" my hackles go up. Anyway hopefully things get better for Netherlands soon.
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So, what's your point, exactly. The vaccines are a failure, so why bother? The media should be reporting every side of this story, even if it comes from devout anti-vaxxers? Should Facebook allow anyone to post anything they want, whether it scientifically verified or not?

All I know is that I have a choice of who to listen to. I can listen to someone like Dr. Fauci, a well respected immunologist, or stuff floating around the internet, or a chef in a food forum. I have an art degree, and take pictures of cars for a living. I'm not a scientist or a doctor, so I choose to go with what the most reputable scientists and doctors say.

CD
 
caseydog said:
So, what's your point, exactly. The vaccines are a failure, so why bother? The media should be reporting every side of this story, even if it comes from devout anti-vaxxers? Should Facebook allow anyone to post anything they want, whether it scientifically verified or not?

All I know is that I have a choice of who to listen to. I can listen to someone like Dr. Fauci, a well respected immunologist, or stuff floating around the internet, or a chef in a food forum. I have an art degree, and take pictures of cars for a living. I'm not a scientist or a doctor, so I choose to go with what the most reputable scientists and doctors say.

CD
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Who are these devout antivaxxers exactly, no seriously I really don't watch main stream TV? I personally don't pay attention to self proclaimed anti-vaxxers, and would never support such a ridiculous stance and I'm a big supporter of vaccines. Not everyone that has a different opinion or an opinion in general is an antivaxxer even though that is the popular stance but it also deflects from important conversations. I listen to Dr. Fauci for what he has to say, which is very basic information and also quite a few other scientists, immunologists, virologists Dr's from around the world which I find interesting as well as fascinating. If I can learn something about this virus that gives me more information that will help the people I love then I want to understand it as thoroughly as I can given the totality of the information available, unfortunately that appears to be unpopular I guess . What happens in my province or your state is interesting but not interesting enough and generally political, which I have no interest in, again very basic generic info in Canada if it's from the gov't.
 
  • Non-essential shops will have to shut at 18:00 (17:00 GMT) and supermarkets, cafes, restaurants and hotels at 20:00
  • Professional and amateur sport will continue, but behind closed doors
  • That includes the Netherlands' football World Cup qualifier against Norway on 16 November
  • The 18:00 closure applies to casinos and saunas as well as hairdressers and sex workers
  • A maximum of four guests aged over 13 will be allowed at people's homes
  • As many people should work from home as possible
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59258409
 
garlichead said:
Who are these devout antivaxxers exactly, no seriously I really don't watch main stream TV? I personally don't pay attention to self proclaimed anti-vaxxers, and would never support such a ridiculous stance and I'm a big supporter of vaccines. Not everyone that has a different opinion or an opinion in general is an antivaxxer even though that is the popular stance but it also deflects from important conversations. I listen to Dr. Fauci for what he has to say, which is very basic information and also quite a few other scientists, immunologists, virologists Dr's from around the world which I find interesting as well as fascinating. If I can learn something about this virus that gives me more information that will help the people I love then I want to understand it as thoroughly as I can given the totality of the information available, unfortunately that appears to be unpopular I guess . What happens in my province or your state is interesting but not interesting enough and generally political, which I have no interest in, again very basic generic info in Canada if it's from the gov't.
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I have a customer/friend who is one of those devout anti-vaxxers. His kids are home schooled, so they don't have to take any vaccines, including ones like measles. Measles was pretty much wiped out in the US until the anti-vaxxers gave it new life.

Covid is VERY political in Texas. But, it is the anti-science crowd, led by our Governor, that are politicizing it. These are the same people who say Global Warming is a hoax. They believe that the universe was created in six days, around 6,000 years ago, and want to teach that as an "alternative theory" in science classes. It is NOT being politicized by proponents of vaccines and masks. Those people are trying their best to save lives. Do they get everything 100-percent right all the time? Of course not, that's not possible. But, they seem to lean on real science way more than the anti-vaxxers do.

CD
 
Thanks CD. I have come across a few antivaxxers since the beginning and there's no point having a ration conversation with them, so I just don't bother. It's difficult to format a policy as a gov't that is nuanced in a way that views the population as individuals rather than just that population and therefore the science community will have fundamental disagreements with, this was bound to happen.

Some Countries have banned the use of a particular vaccine to boys 20 and under while other Countries want everyone vaccinated down to 2 yrs old. That's just an example where difficult conversations might come up. The vaccine from the very beginning which was well know in the scientific community was always going to wane and become ineffective and we have the CDC wanting everyone double vaxxed even if you've had the virus. The argument from the CDC on this, is that the antibodies also wane when someone has been infected naturally and often repeated in the news and other media. Reality is that all antibodies will wane regardless simply because if it doesn't our blood would get so thick it would be like molasse. What's important is that natural immunity also effects the B cells and more importantly the T cells which is like a trigger that will then produce antibodies when the time is needed. Antibodies when you look at it scientifically is basically a red herring. Because like I said it's difficult to format policy for the individual so instead the decision to just double vaxx everyone down to infancy is problematic for a lot of scientists and other scholars which then get censored from journalists on facebook because they didn't agree and it goes against main stream thinking was basically the point I was trying to make which is also problematic when viewing a strategy like a mandate, same thing.

Anyway I certainly want everyone to be aware that pulling back on the social barriers to prevent covid infection is not the best course of action...Canada is doing that now and apparently going to remove all measures in the spring....
 
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Windigo said:
  • Non-essential shops will have to shut at 18:00 (17:00 GMT) and supermarkets, cafes, restaurants and hotels at 20:00
  • Professional and amateur sport will continue, but behind closed doors
  • That includes the Netherlands' football World Cup qualifier against Norway on 16 November
  • The 18:00 closure applies to casinos and saunas as well as hairdressers and sex workers
  • A maximum of four guests aged over 13 will be allowed at people's homes
  • As many people should work from home as possible
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59258409
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I feel for you. Ontario has had a few doozy lockdowns that make this look loosie goosy. You'll get through this and the reproduction rate in the Netherlands has leveled off and going slightly down since around the middle of October and I'd suspect you'll start to see a downward trend for infection real soon. imo
 
garlichead said:
I feel for you. Ontario has had a few doozy lockdowns that make this look loosie goosy. You'll get through this and the reproduction rate in the Netherlands has leveled off and going slightly down since around the middle of October and I'd suspect you'll start to see a downward trend for infection real soon. imo
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You may think we're getting off lightly, but we've had the longest lockdowns in continental europe. Last year it started like this, got a lot stricter and ended in may after starting at the same time as now. We're heading in exactly the same direction, as our numbers of infected are now just as high as in may 2020.
Our politicians lack long term vision. They always say 'just a few weeks' and then it takes months and months.

What's even more ridicoulous is we have a 85% vaxxed rate but it's still not enough because our politicians refuse to invest money in healthcare. With an ICU capacity of only 1350 beds total on 17 million people, it's not surprising there's a crisis
 
Windigo said:
You may think we're getting off lightly, but we've had the longest lockdowns in continental europe. Last year it started like this, got a lot stricter and ended in may after starting at the same time as now. We're heading in exactly the same direction, as our numbers of infected are now just as high as in may 2020.
Our politicians lack long term vision. They always say 'just a few weeks' and then it takes months and months.

What's even more ridicoulous is we have a 85% vaxxed rate but it's still not enough because our politicians refuse to invest money in healthcare. With an ICU capacity of only 1350 beds total on 17 million people, it's not surprising there's a crisis
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No I'm sure that it may get stricter for you if it continues. We've had some crazy lockdowns and we've just eased back and now heading back into winter, where infection likes to preside and I'm not liking that. Our gov't has been 2 steps behind, always playing catch up and sounding like they knew what they were doing from the beginning. You know the saying "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time" totally incompetent frightened idiots and mostly for their jobs. Like I said the rate of reproduction has leveled off and starting to go down and it's going to take a little time before the hospitalizations and confirmed cases start to drop, but I suspect that is going to happen soon. In my opinion of course.
 
Windigo said:
You may think we're getting off lightly, but we've had the longest lockdowns in continental europe. Last year it started like this, got a lot stricter and ended in may after starting at the same time as now. We're heading in exactly the same direction, as our numbers of infected are now just as high as in may 2020.
Our politicians lack long term vision. They always say 'just a few weeks' and then it takes months and months.

What's even more ridicoulous is we have a 85% vaxxed rate but it's still not enough because our politicians refuse to invest money in healthcare. With an ICU capacity of only 1350 beds total on 17 million people, it's not surprising there's a crisis
Click to expand...
I just took a look and as of Saturday the 12th the Netherlands have 365 people in ICU. You also have to keep in mind that when a Country has a high vaccination rate that the increase in hospitals is approx 50% less than not having anybody vaccinated, this also holds true with deaths. Everyone will eventually have the virus enter their nostrils, it going to happen whether we like it or not and I know this is of no consequence but this can be an advantage in the future with less infection, hospitalization and deaths from pure herd immunity. As opposed to other countries that tried to avoid it completely and are only now realizing governmentally that they need to learn to live with it. for them the infections are just beginning.
 
It's a big fat world with lots of international travel and lots of people who refuse to participate in controlling COVID by getting vaccinated and wearing masks. So, we continue to have repeat waves that are closely tied across continents where countries share travel between them. What causes these waves? I think we should find that they are closely tied to social events which bring people together, holidays, school schedules, etc. Even the end of one wave can provoke another by giving folks the impression that the last wave was the end of the virus and so, they go out 'devil may care' with the belief that they have nothing to fear, only to evoke another wave.

But the real problem is that no matter how hard governments try to control the virus, those people who refuse to participate and get with the program, blunt the government efforts. And for them, their group suffers the highest infection and mortality rates. Yet in a free world, they are allowed to choose and the rest of us, no matter how much we do to participate in controlling the virus, must be aware, that the door is open to resurgence, - always.
 
garlichead said:
I just took a look and as of Saturday the 12th the Netherlands have 365 people in ICU. You also have to keep in mind that when a Country has a high vaccination rate that the increase in hospitals is approx 50% less than not having anybody vaccinated, this also holds true with deaths. Everyone will eventually have the virus enter their nostrils, it going to happen whether we like it or not and I know this is of no consequence but this can be an advantage in the future with less infection, hospitalization and deaths from pure herd immunity. As opposed to other countries that tried to avoid it completely and are only now realizing governmentally that they need to learn to live with it. for them the infections are just beginning.
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No, we have 365 COVID patients on the ICU. The rest is normal ICU patients .
 
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