Ukraine

[caseydog]

So what's up with this war? All countries in west Europe seem to gamble it out with Putin instead of end this war. To keep the GDP, or even raise it and of course to handle this bad inflation... while people just a few kilometers away wake up in hell everyday.

I understand your frustration, but what's your suggestion to "end this war?"

NATO could go to war with Putin, which we would no doubt win, but would probably go nuclear.

We can give Ukraine to Putin, as some people in the US suggest.

Or, we can keep supporting Ukraine with more and better weapons, which is our current strategy -- one we should expand, in my opinion -- and most of those weapons are paid for by US taxpayers, like me (see chart below). Europe is paying the biggest price as far as economic damage. But, as usual, US taxpayers are paying the biggest price in financial, humanitarian and military aid. It isn't pleasant for anyone. Even ordinary Russians are suffering from Putin's war.

Negotiating with Putin is going nowhere. What do you do, tell him we will let him have half of Ukraine if he will end the war? We already let him have Crimea, and it wasn't enough for him. He wants it all... plus a few more non NATO countries. You can't negotiate with someone who can not be trusted. That's called "pacification," and it has a pretty bad track record.

Putin is counting on people in the West to get tired of all the hardships, and say, "Let Putin have Ukraine." Why should we care? It's not like he's attacking OUR country." (yet)

I know it is frustrating, but we don't have any good options.

CD

 

[karadekoolaid]

"So what´s up with this war?". It continues, and will do so until (a) the Russians win (b) the Ukranians win (c) NATO declares war on Russia (d) Russia declares war on NATO (e) both sides call a truce. You can´t negociate with power-crazed lunatic dictators (Putin, Assad from Syria, Kim from N Korea, Maduro from Venezuela, Lukashenko from Belarus, etc.) because they´re not interested in giving way. You might be able to assassinate them, but that´s a slim chance and there´s always some crazed fanatical follower in the wings to take his place.

 

[Windigo]

I understand your frustration, but what's your suggestion to "end this war?"

NATO could go to war with Putin, which we would no doubt win, but would probably go nuclear.

We can give Ukraine to Putin, as some people in the US suggest.

Or, we can keep supporting Ukraine with more and better weapons, which is our current strategy -- one we should expand, in my opinion -- and most of those weapons are paid for by US taxpayers, like me (see chart below). Europe is paying the biggest price as far as economic damage. But, as usual, US taxpayers are paying the biggest price in financial, humanitarian and military aid. It isn't pleasant for anyone. Even ordinary Russians are suffering from Putin's war.

Negotiating with Putin is going nowhere. What do you do, tell him we will let him have half of Ukraine if he will end the war? We already let him have Crimea, and it wasn't enough for him. He wants it all... plus a few more non NATO countries. You can't negotiate with someone who can not be trusted. That's called "pacification," and it has a pretty bad track record.

Putin is counting on people in the West to get tired of all the hardships, and say, "Let Putin have Ukraine." Why should we care? It's not like he's attacking OUR country." (yet)

I know it is frustrating, but we don't have any good options.


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CD

Geeze, our politicians lie! They told us they're giving the biggest net donations to Ukraine in Europe. And I keep up with news and politics! This is quite stunning to me. What is the source?

 

[caseydog]

Geeze, our politicians lie! They told us they're giving the biggest net donations to Ukraine in Europe. And I keep up with news and politics! This is quite stunning to me. What is the source?

I can't actually say they are lying. A lot of money is given to Ukraine is not government money. Plus your country's population is 4 million less than my single state of Texas in the US. They can only do what they can do. All you can do is all you can do. For your country, that means toughing out the economic hardships. For mine, it means we see our tax dollars go to Ukraine, and I'm okay with that.

CD

 

[PabloLerntKochen]

NATO could accept the Ukraine immediately, step in together and overwhelm Russia. But yeah, maybe it’s because Putin thinks the life of his nation is more important of that of one or two generations.
Nazi Germany isn't far away in time and most people I've met don't treat me bad as im german, because some relatives did some terrible things.

 

[caseydog]

NATO could accept the Ukraine immediately, step in together and overwhelm Russia. But yeah, maybe it’s because Putin thinks the life of his nation is more important of that of one or two generations.
Nazi Germany isn't far away in time and most people I've met don't treat me bad as im german, because some relatives did some terrible things.

I don't think Putin really cares about the Russian people. He cares about Vladimir Putin.

I agree that NATO could overwhelm Russia, quite easily, actually. But, a desperate Putin would quite possibly go nuclear. The Russian military is a shambles, but he does have a huge stockpile of nukes.

CD

 

[PabloLerntKochen]

Are there really people in the higher positions who would let a big nuclear war happen? Wouldn't that be against all kind of goals a civilization has?
Rich people who would like to be more richer wouldn’t never agree, because there would be no benefit.

 

[karadekoolaid]

NATO could accept the Ukraine immediately, step in together and overwhelm Russia.

That option is not going to happen, because that could trigger a far more extensive conflict. As long as NATO countries provide the Ukraine with weapons that the UKRAINIANS use, there´s not much Hijo de Putin can do. That´s politics. If NATO entered into the war, all Hell would break loose, and again, that would be convenient for Putin, but definitely not for NATO.

 

[caseydog]

I heard it it is Volodymyr Zelenskyy's birthday today. The US and Germany are sending him some gifts... 30 M1 Abrams Tanks from the US, and some more tanks from Germany.

graphic from The Late Show with Stephen Colbert

CD

 

[PabloLerntKochen]

The ukrainians were very happy about us, waiting for president's birthday, until we send the tanks

 

[rascal]

The tiger tanks are on their way is my understanding. I watch the news a lot. CNN and fox. I cant believe someone hasn't taken him out. Putin that is. From within.
Could someone put a bounty on his head? I'd contribute.!
Nz is doing f all compared to Australia.

Russ

 

[karadekoolaid]

Unfortunately, the slimy, ratbag, tinpot dictators of the world never seem to get taken out.
Assad in Syria, the mulla in Iran, Putin, Lukashenko in Belarus, the Myanmar military, Ortega in Nicaragua and Maduro in Venezuela.

 

[caseydog]

The ukrainians were very happy about us, waiting for president's birthday, until we send the tanks

That was just coincidence. NATO members have been pressuring the US and Germany for quite a while to send tanks the Ukraine.

CD

 

[caseydog]

The tiger tanks are on their way is my understanding. I watch the news a lot. CNN and fox. I cant believe someone hasn't taken him out. Putin that is. From within.
Could someone put a bounty on his head? I'd contribute.!
Nz is doing f all compared to Australia.

Russ

The reason countries don't assassinate leaders of other countries is because it would become open season on their own leaders. Something like that would need to happen from within.

CD

 

[rascal]

The reason countries don't assassinate leaders of other countries is because it would become open season on their own leaders. Something like that would need to happen from within.

CD

I said at the time I thought it would come from within. Noone with the kahunas

Russ