How do we communicate?

Duck59 said:
Err, right, my novel. In many ways, it's a bit of a revenge job on one of my old bosses. I've made him into a businessman who runs a company running golf tours (he was and no doubt still is, a golf fanatic). Some of the office scenes are very close to things that actually happened, but I've made up a lot of the more outrageous stuff.

He - my boss - was a bit of a fantasist whose interests didn't lie much beyond football and golf. He was a total philistine and I've played on that. For my own amusement, I made his character a Hearts fan while he himself supported Hibs. There was never the remotest possibility that he would read the book (he never read anything other than the sports pages of The Sun and the Edinburgh Evening News), but I know that would have really hacked him off.

It was fun making up the characters. One of them, Sean, is essentially me. My Polish woman, Krystyna, is totally made up and I was quite pleased with her because I didn't base her on anyone. Another central character, Lucy, is based on a Glaswegian girl I used to know in Oxford.

Here's my author page on you-know-where. It lists my novel and my non-fiction book as well.

My author page
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First of all, congratulations for your novel, Sean :happy:

Reading your brief review of your work, I seemed to catch a parallel with Brodie Moncur, the main protagonist of Love is Blind by William Boyd.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking off interest in your novel, it's just something that came back to my mind (again) that I've read recently and loved so much.

Sounds very interesting, having built a character like Krystyna from scratch, I'm sure you had fun.
Years ago I followed a course in creative writing, it was really enlightening. And of course we touched on the topic 'how to build a character'. I sweated a lot. Nope, I didn't have fun (even because I am not a novelist at all)

I also like the cover you chose, it fits perfectly.

I'd say you had your little revenge. Ah, how I would like to have this possibility too, but the only thing I can do is cook a frittata thinking of the face of the one I would like to take off some pebbles from my shoes.

.. who knows, maybe a paragraph on sports pages of The Sun and the Edinburgh Evening News?
 
Duck59 said:
Irvine Welsh has written twelve novels, most of them centred in Edinburgh. Three of them involve the Trainspotting characters, the original (obviously), plus Porno (the same lot ten years on) and Skag Boys, which we might call a prequel. There is also a newer one called The Blade Artist, which I've not read but is about the psycho Begbie.

Filth is about a bent policeman and there's a sequel to this one, as well, Crime. Glue is a bit of a Trainspotting copy, following four Edinburgh characters but over the course of four decades, with yet another follow-up in A Decent Ride. I've read Glue and I recall that Renton from Trainspotting makes an appearance in this one.
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Skag Boys, of course! I forgot it.

Wow, he has written twelve novels... I'll recover.

I'm interested in The Blade Artist though, I liked the psycho Begbie - magnificently played by Robert Carlyle
 
MypinchofItaly said:
Skag Boys, of course! I forgot it.

Wow, he has written twelve novels... I'll recover.

I'm interested in The Blade Artist though, I liked the psycho Begbie - magnificently played by Robert Carlyle
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I think Robert Carlyle is brilliant. A really versatile actor.

I've never read that William Boyd book you mention. I'm intrigued...
 
I always get a bit irritated when I hear someone respond to a question by saying "Listen..." It sounds demonstrative and overbearing. Thankfully, I've not heard it quite so much lately.

However, there seems to be a new trend of starting replies with "So..." I find this nearly as annoying (and unnecessary).
 
Duck59 said:
However, there seems to be a new trend of starting replies with "So..." I find this nearly as annoying (and unnecessary).
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I was going to write about this too. I noticed it about six months ago. Everyone is now doing it especially when being interviewed. They are asked a direct question such as 'What is the planned expenditure for next year?' and answer it with 'So'... followed by a vague reply. Its not only politicians but all kinds of people who are doing it and not necessarily in an attempt to avoid directly answering a question. Its very irritating and grammatically incorrect. The word 'so' indicates something following on as a result of something else and cannot therefore be used in response to a direct question.

I heard one rather long interview on the radio with a woman from a charity where every single thing she said was prefaced by 'so..'

Where has this come from? Is it an American thing originally perhaps?
 
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MypinchofItaly said:
Arrogance mistaken for strong character. How many times it has happened to hear you say the phrase, like a ready justification, 'it is not arrogant, it has only a strong character'.
No but, seriously?
Having a strong character is a thing, being arrogant is another one. The arrogants do not have a strong character, otherwise they would not be arrogant (or rude, depending on the circumstances).

Having a strong character has a positive meaning, being arrogant no, neither now nor ever.

What's your opinion?
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Spot on take.
When I was a kid I had an Uncle involved in Major League Baseball front office.

I got to meet many players and Jackie Robinson was one.
I took him for confident. He glowed confidence and warmth.

Hurts to read that some writers say that he “looked” arrogant and cocky.
 
A little dive bar I go to to watch sports had a Dwarf customer. He has a few beers after working his delivery truck driver job or on his days off mornings before sports started on TV.

He was the master cheap shot return genius. Epic with a stadium announcers voice.
With words could fold insulting people up like a fat man sitting in a Walmart Beach chair.

Some trauma nurses would occasionally come in after their 10 day run on shift. They were from Jordan. Sweet as sugar, no booze just breakfast and tea.

They’d love to listen to the exchanges hurled between the drunks and my dwarf friend. Loud and quick witted and brutally funny. Everyone present needed a thick skin.

The Jordanian nurses told me where they come from exchanges like that are taken as being sincere.
 
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I love discussing communication.
A simple statement or question can become antagonistic or hurtful if delivered in a defensive or belligerent tone of voice. What should be a neutral statement becomes hurtful.

I am amazed and offended by the acceptance of profanity in casual conversation. Step Son (43), recently deceased nephew (40) and all of their friend and associated are unable to speak without excessive profanity. The F Bomb is used in common speech. It seems to be a generational thing. It is beyond my understanding. With a couple of hundred thousand words in the English language why is profanity so necessary? What really disturbs me is that these close to middle aged adults show no respect for their elders, or women or children. I have been around step son and his friends. I do not hesitate to call them down on their language. I find it offensive. They will tone it down for a few minutes then return to their profanity.

Two years ago G took clients and their wives on a deep water guided fishing trip. His immediate supervisor and his girlfriend were also on board. Their overboard profanity so offended one of G's clients that he refused to do work with the company.

My Nephew knew that profanity was not allowed at family gatherings. He showed respect for his family by not using profanity.

What baffles me is that these adults do not realize that they demean themselves. When you speak like trash you will be perceived as trash.

A rose by any other name smells as sweet.

Fricking, frigging, fracking - all just an F Bomb by another name. It stinks.

My rant for the day. I find the casual use of profanity personally offensive and demeaning to the speaker.
I am done.
 
I swear a lot, the f word, but not really the c word. Being in sales all my life I've always got on with people, upsetting people is not my goal. I get on with nearly every one I meet. My son gets on with everyone, I've never ever heard a bad word about him. I'm hoping he learnt a bit off me. He's a business development manager in a big company here. Kiwis are pretty laid back and swearing is common, same as the ozzies. Just my opinion.!!

Russ
 
rascal said:
I swear a lot, the f word,
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Me too! You would think Rascal and I really trashy if you met us, ElizabethB! :ohmy: In truth, it may be a cultural thing. Its certainly very common for Brits to use the f word when talking informally. I didn't use it at work, in formal situations but otherwise I do. And so do many people I know. I use the sh*t word a lot too, as do loads of folk in the UK.

To me they are just words and are not sexist or racist - unlike the c word, which I don't use.

Interesting article here: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-fcking-short-history-of_b_3352948
 
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To me, words are just words. The idea that we've somehow arbitrarily decided that ass/arse is an "adult" word, though butt/bum is an acceptable alternative always puzzles me a bit. Why is one arrangement of letters forbidden, but others that describe the exact same thing or feeling not? Not looking for answers, just one of those little philosophical things that occupies my mind.

I grew up in a house with no bad language, I once got the shi...er, daylights knocked out of me for saying fart, and one of my funniest memories in my late teens is of watching my mom chase a sawmill customer out of the house and off the property with her broom, because he said "flipping" in substitution of f---ing: "I know what word you really meant just the same!" :laugh:

I'll be 54 this year, not sure how generational it is. As soon as I escaped to the real world, rough language was everywhere, and is to this day. There is no going out in public for lunch without hearing "sh!t" this and "eff" that. I've worked military, telecommunications, insurance, cookie factory, recruiting, publishing, and now finance (all in an IT capacity), and have worked with a mix of men and women, a mix of ages, and that language has always been prevalent.

I have noticed over the years that two particular words that were absolutely forbidden at home and at school are now used commonly, on regular TV and by little kids, which does raise my eyebrow a little, a bit more in a way of how we've changed. I don't know what this site will or won't block, so I'll give it a go: d!ck and p*ssy. Those had very specific, very vulgar, very insulting meanings when I was a kid, but they seem to have gone more mainstream in the last 20 years, so maybe those are generational.

rascal - I was down one of those internet rabbit holes earlier and found an article titled something like "Do Brits Like Aussies?" or "What Do Brits Think Of Aussies?" and I was laughing, because every person interviewed, among other observations, said the same thing: "They sure swear a lot, like every other word is f---!" :laugh:
 
I am not a purist. I spent 6 years active duty and 16 years reserve duty in the USN. Yes I can and did swear like a sailor. With a bit of age and hopefully some maturity I began to really listen to myself and those around me.
My parents and their friends never swore.
There was some point in time when I realized that my use of profanity and the use of profanity by those around me sounded horrible. Trashy.
A poor reflection on me and my family.
There are extreme occasions when I will use the s word. G heard me shout it out when I was stung by a wasp last summer. When, from lack of attention I gave myself a bad cut. When I burned my roux. If G does hear me use the s word he knows something bad has happened and comes running. It is kind of funny. since I no longer swear G rarely uses swear words. The exception is when he is watching football (US football) Even then he has toned it down to a minimum. He does not drop F bombs.

Step Son and his wife can not make a declarative statement without multiple f bombs. They have a 19 year old son and a 16 year old daughter. If either of those children spoke to them the way they speak to G SS would knock them into next week. THAT is a very big complaint. They have no problem being disrespectful but will not tolerate disrespect.

Sorry
I am old. I yearn for a time when respect and civility were the norm.
 
ElizabethB said:
Sorry
I am old. I yearn for a time when respect and civility were the norm.
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No need to apologize. For me, I don't swear much out loud, but my inner thoughts are a cesspool. :)

Also, a lot of times, I'm such an introvert and so in tune to my own thoughts, I don't even hear it from other people. We'll be out and I'll catch an eye roll from my wife, or a comment, and I'll ask what's up, and she'll nod to the table next us and say, "Haven't you heard them? F this, F that, F F F!" - and I'll have not heard any of it because I'm so into my own head.

Another also, I think it's a lot more common to find objectionable language like that in more mainstream places, like TV and magazines. In the "old days," I know celebrities would sometimes give rather salty interviews, but reporters would clean them up, and so it made the world look like this place where vulgarity really didn't exist, even though it did, of course.

TV...don't get me started. Network TV gets a little racier in baby steps (remember when some actor's bare backside on Hill Street Blues was a big controversy?), but subscription TV, which really is in nearly every home (meaning everyone in that house is exposed to it), is just full of the F's. I can only imagine what my mom would think about a show on Netflix that's rated TV-14, with loads of swearing and descriptions of sex acts, etc. She'd probably jump out the window. :laugh:

Even more also, one thing that does catch me sometimes is the willingness of strangers to swear upon a casual meeting. We travel overseas a couple of times a year, and it's been pretty common the last couple of decades to be asked, "So what do you think of your President Bush/Obama/Trump?" After we give a kind of middle-of-the-road answer, we'll likely get a response that includes a lot of casual swearing, whether the response is positive or negative. :laugh:

All of this brings me to this hilarious minute from the TV show Father Ted, with Mrs. Doyle complaining about bad language in books. Warning, this may or may not be safe for work, depending on you and your workplace:

View: https://youtu.be/ogrfAgbIfFo


...which reminds me of one last thing - I had a Monty Python calendar at work once, each month highlighted a well-know MP bit, with a large title across the top. One month had "YOU BASTARDS!" across the the top, and I would never in a million years consider bastard to be even remotely vulgar or a swear word. Insulting, yes, but no more so than dummy or jerk or idiot.

However, one of the older gals complained, and down came the calendar. 😕
 
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